Devils Vs Nottingham Panthers - Sun 17 Sep 2017 - League - Chat/Updates

#61
What has happened to the in Lord we trust theme, whilst nobody is directly criticising the management or the team, this debate is indirectly doing that. The management has openly stated its support of physical hockey, Steve King likes physical hockey, they signed a major enforcer, for physical hockey. This debate may be a bit premature.


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DevilDom

Well-Known Member
#62
I trust Lord to get it right, however maybe he needs a chat to the players about what he expects. Whilst we don't have an out-and-out tough guy we have plenty of tough players. As long as the instruction is that nobody messes with us and especially with Bowns and if they do there will be a reaction then that's fine for me. Obviously I'm not expecting anyone to get goaded into dumb fights at the wrong time but Batch, Louis, Faryna, Lord, Paris, Hotham and even Pope are all big guys and whilst I wouldn't want to see them regulalry fighting if the situation arises then they should all be prepared to go.
 
#63
I can appreciate that everyone likes a good tilt and i'm one of them but we all need to understand that the game has and continues to change. Skill is taking a front seat over the knuckle draggers from the past and your going to have to get used to it . The reason this league has improved the last 3 years is because more skill has come into the league. As well, rule changes from the NHL down discourages fighting and especially the gratuitous fighting of the 2 guys that sat on the bench only to be sent out to fight. Hockey in it's present form is highly skilled, fast paced and hard hitting and with the occasional tilt . There are more skilled players on each team than ever before. The Devils have 4 solid lines that I consider 1a and 1b and 3a and 3b , which means the first 2 lines could considered 1st lines and the other 2 would be considered 3rd lines. There are no 1st or 4th lines on the Devils this year. I don't believe for 1 minute that the Devils will be bullied this year and I didn't see where any Devil was being bullied on Sunday and because someone gets the upperhand on a hit doesn't mean a fight needs to be ensued or they're being bullied. The Devils have plenty of toughness and while Boardy was a deterrent he's gone so get over it.
 

ASHIPP

Well-Known Member
#64
I can appreciate that everyone likes a good tilt and i'm one of them but we all need to understand that the game has and continues to change. Skill is taking a front seat over the knuckle draggers from the past and your going to have to get used to it . The reason this league has improved the last 3 years is because more skill has come into the league. As well, rule changes from the NHL down discourages fighting and especially the gratuitous fighting of the 2 guys that sat on the bench only to be sent out to fight. Hockey in it's present form is highly skilled, fast paced and hard hitting and with the occasional tilt . There are more skilled players on each team than ever before. The Devils have 4 solid lines that I consider 1a and 1b and 3a and 3b , which means the first 2 lines could considered 1st lines and the other 2 would be considered 3rd lines. There are no 1st or 4th lines on the Devils this year. I don't believe for 1 minute that the Devils will be bullied this year and I didn't see where any Devil was being bullied on Sunday and because someone gets the upperhand on a hit doesn't mean a fight needs to be ensued or they're being bullied. The Devils have plenty of toughness and while Boardy was a deterrent he's gone so get over it.

Very good points here. Folks bang on about the need for a deterrent this season. Who would you say was the deterrent for Steelers? The Giants? The Storm? The Blaze?

One or two of those teams had similar players a couple of seasons ago. IIRC, Devils dealt with those guys through team toughness. The game is changing...wins are decided through speed, skill and adaption now. The Panthers didn't demonstrate any rreal muscle until they realised the game was pretty much out of reach for them.

I don't believe our guys will be worried by anyone. They have enough toughness to cope with aggression as long as they play smart.

Would imagine the speed and upgrade in skill of several teams is a bigger concern to our team in their title defence. Adapting and planning for that will be the key to winning games this season.
 
#65
I trust Lord to get it right, however maybe he needs a chat to the players about what he expects. Whilst we don't have an out-and-out tough guy we have plenty of tough players. As long as the instruction is that nobody messes with us and especially with Bowns and if they do there will be a reaction then that's fine for me. Obviously I'm not expecting anyone to get goaded into dumb fights at the wrong time but Batch, Louis, Faryna, Lord, Paris, Hotham and even Pope are all big guys and whilst I wouldn't want to see them regulalry fighting if the situation arises then they should all be prepared to go.
I don't really understand this level of thinking at all. You "expected a response" after the hit on Lord. It was a totally clean hit. There is nothing to respond too. Dust yourself down and get on with the game. Some idiot takes a run at Brown and it's a 5+2 and game. Likely a loss on the cards giving the panthers a huge PP.

Who exactly has bossed us around the rink physically, or taken a run at Bowns? I haven't seen it yet. I'm seeing a lot of "ohhh but this could happen", but it hasn't. We are a couple of games into the season and you are talking about the devils getting out-muscled in games. Quite frankly it's nonsense. The Guildford game was a total write off in every respect. They just didn't turn up at all, it happens. Thankfully it was a cup game at the start of the season.
 

DevilDom

Well-Known Member
#66
Calm yourself sir. I have an opinion different To yours. I've said what I think and I've read what others think and respect their opinions. I'm not going to repeat my thoughts but suggest you read my posts a little more carefully. I've not once said we should take dumb fights or penalties in fact I've said the opposite.
 
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Gazza272

Well-Known Member
#67
Very good points here. Folks bang on about the need for a deterrent this season. Who would you say was the deterrent for Steelers? The Giants? The Storm? The Blaze?

One or two of those teams had similar players a couple of seasons ago. IIRC, Devils dealt with those guys through team toughness. The game is changing...wins are decided through speed, skill and adaption now. The Panthers didn't demonstrate any rreal muscle until they realised the game was pretty much out of reach for them.

I don't believe our guys will be worried by anyone. They have enough toughness to cope with aggression as long as they play smart.

Would imagine the speed and upgrade in skill of several teams is a bigger concern to our team in their title defence. Adapting and planning for that will be the key to winning games this season.

My bold and underline above.

most of that team is a deterrent in fairness. No one is going into Manchester with a game plan to take them on Physically I wouldn't have thought.
 

voth26

Well-Known Member
#68
My bold and underline above.

most of that team is a deterrent in fairness. No one is going into Manchester with a game plan to take them on Physically I wouldn't have thought.
Physically only probably not but definitely on skill and speed i would have thought and i think the Devils have all three this season in an even mix. time will tell i guess
 

Temme

Well-Known Member
#69
I trust Lord to get it right, however maybe he needs a chat to the players about what he expects. Whilst we don't have an out-and-out tough guy we have plenty of tough players. As long as the instruction is that nobody messes with us and especially with Bowns and if they do there will be a reaction then that's fine for me. Obviously I'm not expecting anyone to get goaded into dumb fights at the wrong time but Batch, Louis, Faryna, Lord, Paris, Hotham and even Pope are all big guys and whilst I wouldn't want to see them regulalry fighting if the situation arises then they should all be prepared to go.
I can't see why Paris or Pope are in this group.

Mark Richardson has had more fights in the last 5 years than both of these combined, as have Joey Martin, Bryce Reddick, Ben Bowns, Luke Piggott, Chris Culligan, Gleason Fournier...

Neither are guys that play that sort of game at all, being tall in stature means absolutely nothing.

for me Hotham is the frustrating part of this puzzle as he always takes care of business when needed, which is great, but he is also our best player & without someone else to police the ice he will continue to bite every time something happens to his disliking - and other teams will always target him for this reason.

I don't agree with calling Batch a tough guy either, he can fight & very well as we know, but no other teams in this league are realistically going to take Batch in a fight as it's too much of a bad trade off for them.
 

DevilDom

Well-Known Member
#70
I can't see why Paris or Pope are in this group.

Mark Richardson has had more fights in the last 5 years than both of these combined, as have Joey Martin, Bryce Reddick, Ben Bowns, Luke Piggott, Chris Culligan, Gleason Fournier...

Neither are guys that play that sort of game at all, being tall in stature means absolutely nothing.

for me Hotham is the frustrating part of this puzzle as he always takes care of business when needed, which is great, but he is also our best player & without someone else to police the ice he will continue to bite every time something happens to his disliking - and other teams will always target him for this reason.

I don't agree with calling Batch a tough guy either, he can fight & very well as we know, but no other teams in this league are realistically going to take Batch in a fight as it's too much of a bad trade off for them.
The point is that if we are relying on "team toughness" without a recognised tough guy whoever is out on the ice at the time will have to police things. Perhaps Pope and Paris were bad examples however Pope's last fight may have been 4 years ago but it was against Cam Janssen and he held his own!

I'm not sure why you wouldn't class Batch as a tough guy either? He has held his own with some of toughest players in the league over the last few years and is probably one of, if not the toughest guy on the team.
 

ASHIPP

Well-Known Member
#71
My bold and underline above.

most of that team is a deterrent in fairness. No one is going into Manchester with a game plan to take them on Physically I wouldn't have thought.
Manchester have had mixed results at the Storm Shelter - I don't think Steelers or Blaze were intimidated on their recent visits there. The Devils won't be either.
 

Gazza272

Well-Known Member
#72
Manchester have had mixed results at the Storm Shelter - I don't think Steelers or Blaze were intimidated on their recent visits there. The Devils won't be either.
You won't be intimidated to use your skating ability, but there is no way you would go to that rink and try and engage in a physical battle, it would be playing directly into their hands.

hence, there is a deterrent there in the physical sense for me.
 

Temme

Well-Known Member
#73
The point is that if we are relying on "team toughness" without a recognised tough guy whoever is out on the ice at the time will have to police things. Perhaps Pope and Paris were bad examples however Pope's last fight may have been 4 years ago but it was against Cam Janssen and he held his own!

I'm not sure why you wouldn't class Batch as a tough guy either? He has held his own with some of toughest players in the league over the last few years and is probably one of, if not the toughest guy on the team.
Batch is as tough as they come, but, and i mean this in no disrespect to Batch who is great for what he brings, other teams are very unlikely to take a fight voluntarily that involves an expensive import vs Batch, it is a bad trade off for any of those teams.

Batch could skate around all night in my eyes calling people out but i very much doubt he'll get many takers.
If Hotham would do the same thing every single player on the opposition team would take the fight.
 

bdevil

Active Member
#74
Batch is as tough as they come, but, and i mean this in no disrespect to Batch who is great for what he brings, other teams are very unlikely to take a fight voluntarily that involves an expensive import vs Batch, it is a bad trade off for any of those teams.

Batch could skate around all night in my eyes calling people out but i very much doubt he'll get many takers.
If Hotham would do the same thing every single player on the opposition team would take the fight.
As a hockey player Batch is definitely no worse than Trevor Hendrikx and plenty of players took him on and traded off better players for the 5 minutes.
Maybe it's less likely to happen now due to how much the league has changed over the last 2 season, and potentially that's why Hendrikx isn't in the league any more.
Time will tell I suppose
 
#75
Calm yourself sir. I have an opinion different To yours. I've said what I think and I've read what others think and respect their opinions. I'm not going to repeat my thoughts but suggest you read my posts a little more carefully. I've not once said we should take dumb fights or penalties in fact I've said the opposite.
You appear to believe that I have been somewhat riled up. That expected a response is a direct quote from yourself. I debated your opinion, not you. Maybe you should follow your own advice and read the post before commenting, because your little "respect" jab was quite lame.
 

DevilDom

Well-Known Member
#76
You appear to believe that I have been somewhat riled up. That expected a response is a direct quote from yourself. I debated your opinion, not you. Maybe you should follow your own advice and read the post before commenting, because your little "respect" jab was quite lame.
No jab intended. Simply saying I respect that others, such as yourself, have a different opinion. It would be a very dull world if we all saw everything the same way and agreed on everything!
 
#77
For batch to stay on the roster next season he needs to up his game imo...
I don't see what he offers right now tbh.
Doesn't check doesn't score doesn't fight.

Only thing is he could play d and forward.
 

Ocko

Well-Known Member
#78
For batch to stay on the roster next season he needs to up his game imo...
I don't see what he offers right now tbh.
Doesn't check doesn't score doesn't fight.

Only thing is he could play d and forward.
Harsh. He has had 2 excellent games on D over the weekend and seems to have really improved since last year. He also is settling into his new role one the 4th and is a physical presence. It's only a few games into him being a forward and he has played a lot of that on D. It's very early to say he doesn't check or score.

He could do with fighting a little more but maybe there's other reasons for that. Like last season he has a significant hand injury after fighting Desbiens. He still carried on playing but fighting wasn't possible.
 

Wannabe2

Well-Known Member
#79
Batch is as tough as they come, but, and i mean this in no disrespect to Batch who is great for what he brings, other teams are very unlikely to take a fight voluntarily that involves an expensive import vs Batch, it is a bad trade off for any of those teams.

Batch could skate around all night in my eyes calling people out but i very much doubt he'll get many takers.
If Hotham would do the same thing every single player on the opposition team would take the fight.
So Egener, Olson, Cescon, Valabik x 2,Keefe x 2, Lawrence, Sarich, Fitzgerald, and Desbiens, weren't expensive imports for their clubs. Josh is a very important Brit in our line up, and could walk into most if not every other EIHL team.
 

ASHIPP

Well-Known Member
#80
For batch to stay on the roster next season he needs to up his game imo...
I don't see what he offers right now tbh.
Doesn't check doesn't score doesn't fight.

Only thing is he could play d and forward.
It's interesting how people see things so differently.....or maybe many other Devils' fans have been watching Josh's development closely for all 6 seasons he's been with our Club.

Only have to read TK and Lordo's comments about Batchy when he re-signed in the Summer to see that they believe and appreciate the role he brings to the team.

In 2 competitive domestic games he has dropped back to cover defence. In the MK Lightening game he was playing in both positions. He is still adapting to playing a forward role. He policed the rising tensions at the end of the Panthers' game by making himself known.Nobody wanted to take it further.

He's settling in and pressure cooking nicely. It's only week 2!
 
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