Giants v Devils - 08/02 @ 19:00 - CC SF 2nd Leg - Chat/Updates

[Red Mist]

Just take your rose tinted specs off for one second. I get that Bowns is a useful player to have, and for this season I was absolutely delighted that he had chosen to stick with us cause I felt he was invaluable to our team. Maybe it's down to the increased pressure, I can't say for sure, but to me he seems to loose his head far more this season. One or two soft goals might go in and then it's an uphill struggle for the rest of the game because we have to try and come from behind, as well as waiting for Ben to gain his confidence back. The amount of rebounds he gives up is a lot, so it would be interesting to see stats like that on goaltenders and how he would compare, because I think he would be right up there. Does anyone genuinely think Ben has performed better this year compared to last year?
I know he's here for the long haul, but just imagine the damage we could do with our D corps and someone like Shane Owen between the pipes.

I've got nothing against Brine, he's a terrific guy ...and there's players who imo have delivered far less than their expectations (Benty) when compared to him. But he is slow. I just think our transfer policy next year should maybe take a look at players who are a bit younger and hungrier when we sign them. Benty 31, Brine 32, Ulmer 36 all appear to be slowing down and aren't quite the players their pedigree would suggest they are (All ex-NHLers). Not all players age as well as David Ling.

 

[JC23]

Just take your rose tinted specs off for one second. I get that Bowns is a useful player to have, and for this season I was absolutely delighted that he had chosen to stick with us cause I felt he was invaluable to our team. Maybe it's down to the increased pressure, I can't say for sure, but to me he seems to loose his head far more this season. One or two soft goals might go in and then it's an uphill struggle for the rest of the game because we have to try and come from behind, as well as waiting for Ben to gain his confidence back. The amount of rebounds he gives up is a lot, so it would be interesting to see stats like that on goaltenders and how he would compare, because I think he would be right up there. Does anyone genuinely think Ben has performed better this year compared to last year?
I know he's here for the long haul, but just imagine the damage we could do with our D corps and someone like Shane Owen between the pipes.

I've got nothing against Brine, he's a terrific guy ...and there's players who imo have delivered far less than their expectations (Benty) when compared to him. But he is slow. I just think our transfer policy next year should maybe take a look at players who are a bit younger and hungrier when we sign them. Benty 31, Brine 32, Ulmer 36 all appear to be slowing down and aren't quite the players their pedigree would suggest they are (All ex-NHLers). Not all players age as well as David Ling.

No rose tinted specs here, as you'll see if you read any of my previous posts, I'm not afraid to criticise when it's warranted.

BUT; Layne Ulmer and Sean Bentivoglio are our number 2 and 3 point scorers in the league this season (Ulmer also 3rd in CC points) behind only Joey Martin.

As for Brine, the guy is playing on our fourth line, and is probably one of the best defensive forwards in the league as a whole. Also playing PP and PK. Not every ex NHL player is going to score 30+ goals a season and run rings around d-men.

I think you need to take a look at players objectively for what they're meant to do and what they're signed for.

As for Bowns, I think he would benefit massively from splitting the duties in goal a little more with Murdy. Just like Whistle and Murphy in Belfast.

 

[voth26]

Linos can bring the attention to the referee of a major penalty any time after a whistle

Ok cheers

 

[Red Mist]

I do look at players objectively, and I realise that you can't have 4 lines full of out and out snipers because all these different roles make up a team. Bentivoglio was brought in to be a talisman, to be another Joey Martin if you like. Whilst he puts in a good effort, you're out of your mind if you're trying to deny that he's failed to meet expectations. Would you be happy if we brought in a top paid #1 netminder who tried really hard but let loads of goals in and relied on the backup to help him out? Same principal really, he's not doing a bad job, but he's not doing the job we brought him in to do. Ulmer has turned it on as of late, but that doesn't change the fact that he has also been poor previously and large portions of the fan base will echo those opinions. I'm not on his case for now. As with everything, I think value should be taken into account and certain players aren't providing it.

Brine is ok, if a little underwhelming. Definitely not the teams unsung hero like some people like to make out. I may have been a little harsh on him, but there's no doubting that he's slow and rarely looks threatening when he's got the puck. Defensively he is sound, he is a dual national, and he's cheap, that's about it.

I do actually agree with you with regards to Bowns/Murdy, it's a shame because on his day, Ben's quality is second to none and there for all to see. It's just the inconsistencies in his game which make it frustrating not knowing which Ben will turn up. Murdy has been a revelation as our back up this season, and is always there to be relied upon as a solid option. It's genuinely the first season ever where I've felt totally comfortable with our back up in nets. Really hope we can hang on to him for next season and that he can push Ben for a couple more starts because he deserves it!

 

[kettdevil1]

I do look at players objectively, and I realise that you can't have 4 lines full of out and out snipers because all these different roles make up a team. Bentivoglio was brought in to be a talisman, to be another Joey Martin if you like. Whilst he puts in a good effort, you're out of your mind if you're trying to deny that he's failed to meet expectations. Would you be happy if we brought in a top paid #1 netminder who tried really hard but let loads of goals in and relied on the backup to help him out? Same principal really, he's not doing a bad job, but he's not doing the job we brought him in to do. Ulmer has turned it on as of late, but that doesn't change the fact that he has also been poor previously and large portions of the fan base will echo those opinions. I'm not on his case for now. As with everything, I think value should be taken into account and certain players aren't providing it.

Brine is ok, if a little underwhelming. Definitely not the teams unsung hero like some people like to make out. I may have been a little harsh on him, but there's no doubting that he's slow and rarely looks threatening when he's got the puck. Defensively he is sound, he is a dual national, and he's cheap, that's about it.

I do actually agree with you with regards to Bowns/Murdy, it's a shame because on his day, Ben's quality is second to none and there for all to see. It's just the inconsistencies in his game which make it frustrating not knowing which Ben will turn up. Murdy has been a revelation as our back up this season, and is always there to be relied upon as a solid option. It's genuinely the first season ever where I've felt totally comfortable with our back up in nets. Really hope we can hang on to him for next season and that he can push Ben for a couple more starts because he deserves it!

Ummmm I'm not exactly sure where to start with this post as I disagree with almost every part of it.

Benti is 4 goals and a couple of assists behind Joey, I would define that as taking the pressure off our number 1 centre. Ditto with Ulmer, I know I keep on about this but what is exactly did everyone expect? He is a couple of goals shy of Joey Martin, has scored 5 PP goals and int he last month or so has been the man most likely in any given situation....

Finally Brine. Underwhelming is probably the least likely word for me to use. I can't think of a better defensive forward in the league at the moment and it is a pleasure watching him play.

Strange how people see things really..... and I am alll for free speech but.... surely we have other things to talk about.

 

[JC23]

Ummmm I'm not exactly sure where to start with this post as I disagree with almost every part of it.

Benti is 4 goals and a couple of assists behind Joey, I would define that as taking the pressure off our number 1 centre. Ditto with Ulmer, I know I keep on about this but what is exactly did everyone expect? He is a couple of goals shy of Joey Martin, has scored 5 PP goals and int he last month or so has been the man most likely in any given situation....

Finally Brine. Underwhelming is probably the least likely word for me to use. I can't think of a better defensive forward in the league at the moment and it is a pleasure watching him play.

Strange how people see things really..... and I am alll for free speech but.... surely we have other things to talk about.

This was almost exactly what I was going to reply, but I was beaten to it.

So I shall add my agreement to it instead.

 

[ASHIPP]

Just take your rose tinted specs off for one second. I get that Bowns is a useful player to have, and for this season I was absolutely delighted that he had chosen to stick with us cause I felt he was invaluable to our team. Maybe it's down to the increased pressure, but to me he seems to loose his head far more this season. One or two soft goals might go in and then it's an uphill struggle for the rest of the game because we have to try and come from behind, as well as waiting for Ben to gain his confidence back. The amount of rebounds he gives up is a lot, so it would be interesting to see stats like that on goaltenders and how he would compare, because I think he would be right up there. Does anyone genuinely think Ben has performed better this year compared to last year?
I know he's here for the long haul, but just imagine the damage we could do with our D corps and someone like Shane Owen between the pipes.

I've got nothing against Brine, he's a terrific guy ...and there's players who imo have delivered far less than their expectations (Benty) when compared to him. But he is slow. I just think our transfer policy next year should maybe take a look at players who are a bit younger and hungrier when we sign them. Benty 31, Brine 32, Ulmer 36 all appear to be slowing down and aren't quite the players their pedigree would suggest they are (All ex-NHLers). Not all players age as well as David Ling.

ThankGod we're all just armchair coaches.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I do look at players objectively, and I realise that you can't have 4 lines full of out and out snipers because all these different roles make up a team. Bentivoglio was brought in to be a talisman, to be another Joey Martin if you like. Whilst he puts in a good effort, you're out of your mind if you're trying to deny that he's failed to meet expectations. Would you be happy if we brought in a top paid #1 netminder who tried really hard but let loads of goals in and relied on the backup to help him out? Same principal really, he's not doing a bad job, but he's not doing the job we brought him in to do. Ulmer has turned it on as of late, but that doesn't change the fact that he has also been poor previously and large portions of the fan base will echo those opinions. I'm not on his case for now. As with everything, I think value should be taken into account and certain players aren't providing it.

Brine is ok, if a little underwhelming. Definitely not the teams unsung hero like some people like to make out. I may have been a little harsh on him, but there's no doubting that he's slow and rarely looks threatening when he's got the puck. Defensively he is sound, he is a dual national, and he's cheap, that's about it.

I do actually agree with you with regards to Bowns/Murdy, it's a shame because on his day, Ben's quality is second to none and there for all to see. It's just the inconsistencies in his game which make it frustrating not knowing which Ben will turn up. Murdy has been a revelation as our back up this season, and is always there to be relied upon as a solid option. It's genuinely the first season ever where I've felt totally comfortable with our back up in nets. Really hope we can hang on to him for next season and that he can push Ben for a couple more starts because he deserves it!

Pictures speak louder than words

And we do not have the leading scorer in the league this year but.............

 

[Devil2493]

Not attacking the poster Redmist as everyone is entitled to their view but as the above poster has shown, stats speak for themselves. Bowns is an outstanding goalie and has grown in confidence each year and is quickly becoming a devils legend. Would have to check but he has been top goalie or near enough in the league for last few seasons and is near enough there again. So not sure how he isn't having another stellar year for us. And some of the saves I have seen him produce are up there with NHL quality, including the old cartwheel save against Steelers last year in their barn to stop Roy (I think) from scoring a simple tap in.

 

[Devil2493]

Sorry just to add if Whistle and Murphy were on same amount of games played I do not think they would be holding that position in that table.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Maybe its not Bowns form that has changed. Maybe its fans expectations are becoming a little unrealistic. This happens when you are top of the league. Look at the Steelers forums when they were top.

 

[kettdevil1]

Maybe its not Bowns form that has changed. Maybe its fans expectations are becoming a little unrealistic. This happens when you are top of the league. Look at the Steelers forums when they were top.

And although top is a strange concept for Nottingham....look at The Cage....

 

[Part Time Devil]

Red mist maybe you need to put on some PMA specs when others take off their rose tinted was there really a need for your very vehement posts after a ground out semi final win? A game in which I might add, if Bowns hadn't made the fantastic save in the opening minutes things could have been very different. Belfast outshot Devils 40-26 surely therefore Bowns helped them win that game?? If CJ hadn't scored might Belfast have got the next goal and changed the outcome of the game? If Brine didn't do the intelligent things he does in a game would results have been the same?
Did Devils lose the league last year because of Bowns, stats suggest not.
Did Devils lose the CC final last year because of Bowns, stats suggest not.
Has Bowns not helped win any games? Shut out against Nottingham, penalty shot wins, PK performance, as quick examples suggest not.
Have their been games where CJ and Brine have done things which helped the team win, I'd say more than they are given them credit for (just my opinion). Same with Benti and Ulmer.
As for rebounds every single netminder in any league will let off rebounds, for me Bowns has got better over the years at directing these to the right places. Very few recent goals have come from rebounds IMO. Re your question re him being worse this season, no would be the answer. Also, if you look at top grade scoring chances allowed on a nm Bowns would be up there near the top, sometimes Devils tactics don't help the netminder (no surprise that when Devils have played good TEAM defence (I.e. working as a 5 man unit coming back as well as going forwards) the overall performance has seemed to be a higher level and the result has been better. It's also led to less mistakes which have cost goals in some games.
Would Devils have been better placed with Owen in net? Who knows, he seems a very good nm but impossible to compare as he's playing in a different conference for the majority of games.
The league has improved again since last year, teams have got better, games have got harder and the league has got tighter. As the posters above have suggested look on any forum and you'll find fans moaning. It's easy to single out the nm who is always an easy target, or individual players, it's much harder to look at why the goals are going in or why your team aren't scoring etc. as you actually have to watch the build up and take other things than simply the nm or individual performances into account. (As an example of this Hoth was recently criticised for skating forward and then holding the puck too long, however on occasions he does this and there is no option as no other players have skated with him). At some point I'd wager every player on this team has done something very very good, they've also all done something not quite so good, that's sport.
Would playing Murdy more have helped, again who knows, maybe as Bowns would have been rested, maybe not? Again that's something we will ever know. Where I do agree with you is that he is a hell of a goalie and if called upon would no doubt do a great job, however he would still need the team in front of him just as Bowns does.
To get over the final line Devils need ALL parts of the team to perform, easy to lay blame at the nm door, when in a team performance all the various parts are to blame at some point in a game or season. Just as all parts should be praised at other points. It is after all a team sport is it not?
What I find most strange (and to an extent most disappointing) is the amount of negativity and criticism on this forum and social media, given the position Devils are in. I'm sure some would find a reason to moan about the team or individual players if they won everything going

 

[E.D.S.]

Red mist maybe you need to put on some PMA specs when others take off their rose tinted was there really a need for your very vehement posts after a ground out semi final win? A game in which I might add, if Bowns hadn't made the fantastic save in the opening minutes things could have been very different. Belfast outshot Devils 40-26 surely therefore Bowns helped them win that game?? If CJ hadn't scored might Belfast have got the next goal and changed the outcome of the game? If Brine didn't do the intelligent things he does in a game would results have been the same?
Did Devils lose the league last year because of Bowns, stats suggest not.
Did Devils lose the CC final last year because of Bowns, stats suggest not.
Has Bowns not helped win any games? Shut out against Nottingham, penalty shot wins, PK performance, as quick examples suggest not.
Have their been games where CJ and Brine have done things which helped the team win, I'd say more than they are given them credit for (just my opinion). Same with Benti and Ulmer.
As for rebounds every single netminder in any league will let off rebounds, for me Bowns has got better over the years at directing these to the right places. Very few recent goals have come from rebounds IMO. Re your question re him being worse this season, no would be the answer. Also, if you look at top grade scoring chances allowed on a nm Bowns would be up there near the top, sometimes Devils tactics don't help the netminder (no surprise that when Devils have played good TEAM defence (I.e. working as a 5 man unit coming back as well as going forwards) the overall performance has seemed to be a higher level and the result has been better. It's also led to less mistakes which have cost goals in some games.
Would Devils have been better placed with Owen in net? Who knows, he seems a very good nm but impossible to compare as he's playing in a different conference for the majority of games.
The league has improved again since last year, teams have got better, games have got harder and the league has got tighter. As the posters above have suggested look on any forum and you'll find fans moaning. It's easy to single out the nm who is always an easy target, or individual players, it's much harder to look at why the goals are going in or why your team aren't scoring etc. as you actually have to watch the build up and take other things than simply the nm or individual performances into account. (As an example of this Hoth was recently criticised for skating forward and then holding the puck too long, however on occasions he does this and there is no option as no other players have skated with him). At some point I'd wager every player on this team has done something very very good, they've also all done something not quite so good, that's sport.
Would playing Murdy more have helped, again who knows, maybe as Bowns would have been rested, maybe not? Again that's something we will ever know. Where I do agree with you is that he is a hell of a goalie and if called upon would no doubt do a great job, however he would still need the team in front of him just as Bowns does.
To get over the final line Devils need ALL parts of the team to perform, easy to lay blame at the nm door, when in a team performance all the various parts are to blame at some point in a game or season. Just as all parts should be praised at other points. It is after all a team sport is it not?
What I find most strange (and to an extent most disappointing) is the amount of negativity and criticism on this forum and social media, given the position Devils are in. I'm sure some would find a reason to moan about the team or individual players if they won everything going

Bowns has improved his rebounds so much. He doesn't seem to do the kind of thing that Murphy did for Joey's goal on Wednesday. That was a shocker. He looks more accomplished. Still gives makes me nervous when he's behind the bet with the puck at his stick but then again all netminders do this to me.
Great goalie, much improved and deserves a winners medal this year. At times he's been playing behind some really poor team defending but as you point out the team defence recently had been superb.


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[fridaysfingers]

Red mist maybe you need to put on some PMA specs when others take off their rose tinted was there really a need for your very vehement posts after a ground out semi final win? A game in which I might add, if Bowns hadn't made the fantastic save in the opening minutes things could have been very different. Belfast outshot Devils 40-26 surely therefore Bowns helped them win that game?? If CJ hadn't scored might Belfast have got the next goal and changed the outcome of the game? If Brine didn't do the intelligent things he does in a game would results have been the same?
Did Devils lose the league last year because of Bowns, stats suggest not.
Did Devils lose the CC final last year because of Bowns, stats suggest not.
Has Bowns not helped win any games? Shut out against Nottingham, penalty shot wins, PK performance, as quick examples suggest not.
Have their been games where CJ and Brine have done things which helped the team win, I'd say more than they are given them credit for (just my opinion). Same with Benti and Ulmer.
As for rebounds every single netminder in any league will let off rebounds, for me Bowns has got better over the years at directing these to the right places. Very few recent goals have come from rebounds IMO. Re your question re him being worse this season, no would be the answer. Also, if you look at top grade scoring chances allowed on a nm Bowns would be up there near the top, sometimes Devils tactics don't help the netminder (no surprise that when Devils have played good TEAM defence (I.e. working as a 5 man unit coming back as well as going forwards) the overall performance has seemed to be a higher level and the result has been better. It's also led to less mistakes which have cost goals in some games.
Would Devils have been better placed with Owen in net? Who knows, he seems a very good nm but impossible to compare as he's playing in a different conference for the majority of games.
The league has improved again since last year, teams have got better, games have got harder and the league has got tighter. As the posters above have suggested look on any forum and you'll find fans moaning. It's easy to single out the nm who is always an easy target, or individual players, it's much harder to look at why the goals are going in or why your team aren't scoring etc. as you actually have to watch the build up and take other things than simply the nm or individual performances into account. (As an example of this Hoth was recently criticised for skating forward and then holding the puck too long, however on occasions he does this and there is no option as no other players have skated with him). At some point I'd wager every player on this team has done something very very good, they've also all done something not quite so good, that's sport.
Would playing Murdy more have helped, again who knows, maybe as Bowns would have been rested, maybe not? Again that's something we will ever know. Where I do agree with you is that he is a hell of a goalie and if called upon would no doubt do a great job, however he would still need the team in front of him just as Bowns does.
To get over the final line Devils need ALL parts of the team to perform, easy to lay blame at the nm door, when in a team performance all the various parts are to blame at some point in a game or season. Just as all parts should be praised at other points. It is after all a team sport is it not?
What I find most strange (and to an extent most disappointing) is the amount of negativity and criticism on this forum and social media, given the position Devils are in. I'm sure some would find a reason to moan about the team or individual players if they won everything going

Okay for a 1st post!!!!

 

[Red Mist]

Is everyone genuinely trying to dismiss the inconsistencies in Bens game when his head drops? - he looses his head far too much for a team going for the championship, and his rebound control leaves much to be desired. I know that every NM gives up rebounds, but what I'm saying is that Ben's rebound control seems to be amongst the worst I've seen in the league. Obviously he has helped us get to where we are, but I struggle to see how people can dispute those points.

Say what you like about CJ, no one will ever be able to convince me that he is good enough. He would still be out of his depth in the EPL. Ok CJ has scored a mighty total of 1 goal all season, another player in his position who's capable may have also matched those insane scoring exploits whilst not messing up plays, providing assists and improving players on that 4th line as opposed to holding them back.

Just cause I have a negative view of a couple of players doesn't make me a troll, I did have doubts about a few players but have gladly been proved wrong. Bordeleau changed my opinion in that Coventry game where he ran the show, it's scary having a player like that on our team knowing exactly what he can do to turn a game. Ulmer has won me over through his hard work and terrific form. Likewise Louis is my signing of the season, but if you'd asked me pre-season I was a little underwhelmed after seeing his youtube fights etc.

I do believe, and I genuinely think we can win everything this year! there's no doubt in my mind that we will be taking home at least 1 trophy this season. As with everything, there's always room for improvement.

 

[E.D.S.]

Just disagreeing. Not dismissing. Bens saved us more than cost us this year.


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[Part Time Devil]

Don't think anyone called you a troll Red Mist but as the above poster says we have different opinions. I'm not sure you are watching other nms or at least maybe not comparing like for like e.g. Where sog come from, is nm screened etc. I also have to say I don't share your opinion that Ben's head goes down or that he is as inconsistent as you say. I would argue that the team has been inconsistent but even then have been picking points up so my argument was are things really as bad as some make out?
This team deserves to win something, seems it'll have to be the hard way with refs & DOPS recently.

 

[Rob Batch]

I'm enjoying the analysis from part time devil, lead up plays etc have more significance than most of us give credit to.