Belfast Haven't Broken the EIHL Roster Rules......because...

Gisland

Active Member
#41
I've been thinking about this comment quite a bit over the past couple of days. Should it be up to me to post what I have been told if the league are determined to hush it up?

And I had initially decided not to bother due to the hassle I would probably get from other fans.

But then I ended up getting lots of abuse from Belfast fans on Twitter for just asking the question. So this is the various bits I've heard from different people and which all seems to fit:

Nobody seems certain whether it's 19 import signings + 1 spare for a netminder. Or 20 + 1 spare for netminder. But even if it is 20+1 then even when you take into account Raine's retirement Belfast would be 1 over.

So when Belfast sign McLeod they initially classed him as injury cover for Soy. Which is allowed and they even confirmed it in the announcement. But then Soy returned from injury so they switched it to..... Lewis Hook.
But Lewis Hook is a Brit. And the rules on IRL are in the section referring to signing imports, not home-grown players. But Belfast argued that it doesn't say specifically that you can't sign an import to cover a Brit and so did it anyway.

Which some might claim is not within the spirit of the rules and others might say is breaking the rules.

But nobody knows what injury Lewis Hook has. I can find no mention of him by Belfast since his last game. He was apparently removed from the roster on the Giants website and EIHL website (but is now back on both).
It would appear that Lewis Hook has actually been suspended by Belfast and been sent home to Peterborough pending a hearing for gross misconduct. I don't think it is fair for me to post what that gross misconduct was for as it involves several people and their personal lives -(but if you look in the right places on social media it is there).
But anyone who has been suspended by a team is not eligible to play and so not eligible to be on the Injury Reserve List.

So it would seem to me that the Belfast organisation have exploited a pretty horrible situation for their own benefit.

That wasnt so hard. Now it puts some things into perspective The central point appears to be Hook and his departure/injury along with the Giant's view of the EIHL position regarding injured players

I have zero insight into what has gone on regarding Hook, have not seen, nor gone hunting for details. I dont need to know his personal life

So would this be the EIHL position you are talking about

Injury Reserve


A team is permitted to place an injured player on ‘Injury Reserve’, subject to sufficient documentation and medical reports being passed to the Head of Hockey Operations.


When placed on Injury Reserve:


  • • The injured player is automatically unavailable to ice in EIHL competitions for 21 days (regardless of the length of the injury)
  • • The team may sign an additional replacement player for 21 days that does not count as an official change
As you state, nothing to say a replacement player must be like for like. i.e. non-home grown for non-home grown. So on this bases, no wrongdoing would appear to have occurred. However, I do accept some will choose the 'moral / spirit" argument to project a wrongdoing. Which I can fully relate to.

As for the acutal Injury list, I see the stipulation that a player's injury must be made and shown on the Official EIHL website; however, I can't even find the IRL on the EIHL site. Feel a little foolish, but could you / someone direct me..,?

I did send off an email and tweet to the Giants asking if Hook is injured, and will he play again this season or not? Can't see a response coming back, to be honest.

Talking to a few friends/supporters and is now rumoured Hook has departed for the remainder of the season.

This has now left a taint on what was going to be a close finish.

Working within the rules can be clever; however if Hook is away, and it has been deliberately withheld, then that's not acceptable and should result in some form of punishment.
 
#42
So reading the previous couple of posts, what we’re saying is that there has been and continues to be;

a. Misuse of the Injured Reserve Listing
b. Misuse of the Video review procedures
c. Sharp practices regarding the interpretation of the like for like replacement of a Brit on IRL with an import.

The silence by the EIHL is deafening!

In most other sports the playing of an ineligible player usually results in a game forfeit or a points deduction,
I won’t be holding my breath though.

"Come on Guildford!"
 

Gisland

Active Member
#45
Anyone heard any league response yet?!
There is an Interesting post on the Hockey Forum. The quote goes something like, the only fans making an issue are those from teams that have under performed. As one Guildford fan posted, he has heard zero rumbling from Guildford fans.

Take from that what you like.

The record will show, Belfast as League and Challenge cup winners. Again., I could be wrong, but that may count as a Double, Treble.

League and Challenge Cup three consecutive years.
 

august04 2.0

Well-Known Member
#46
There is an Interesting post on the Hockey Forum. The quote goes something like, the only fans making an issue are those from teams that have under performed. As one Guildford fan posted, he has heard zero rumbling from Guildford fans.

Take from that what you like.

The record will show, Belfast as League and Challenge cup winners. Again., I could be wrong, but that may count as a Double, Treble.

League and Challenge Cup three consecutive years.
Devils have been shit this year, that’s clear and even if Belfast were docked points, it wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference to our league position. But if the rules have been broken, the league can’t just sweep that under the carpet and hope no-one notices. We should all be playing by the same rules, end of. You simply cannot justify any inaction by the league.
 

Gisland

Active Member
#47
Devils have been shit this year, that’s clear and even if Belfast were docked points, it wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference to our league position. But if the rules have been broken, the league can’t just sweep that under the carpet and hope no-one notices. We should all be playing by the same rules, end of. You simply cannot justify any inaction by the league.

Totally agree. However if the Devils management or any other club have not made a noise, then what?

Records will still show, the Giants have won 3 straight completed season league titles and Challenge Cups.
 

august04 2.0

Well-Known Member
#48
Totally agree. However if the Devils management or any other club have not made a noise, then what?
Then you’ll have a free for all, where teams can blatantly ignore salary caps (as I’m sure some are doing already!), import levels and any other rules/agreements in place, without worrying about the consequences.
Maybe that’s the way to go?
 

Finny

Well-Known Member
Thread starter #49
There is an Interesting post on the Hockey Forum. The quote goes something like, the only fans making an issue are those from teams that have under performed. As one Guildford fan posted, he has heard zero rumbling from Guildford fans.

Take from that what you like.

The record will show, Belfast as League and Challenge cup winners. Again., I could be wrong, but that may count as a Double, Treble.

League and Challenge Cup three consecutive years.
You might want to check your facts there.
Giants won the league in 2019, 2022, 2023
They are not three consecutive years.
And in 2020 Sheffield won the Challenge Cup.
 

AJ73

Active Member
#50
Totally agree. However if the Devils management or any other club have not made a noise, then what?

Records will still show, the Giants have won 3 straight completed season league titles and Challenge Cups.
Belfast deservedly winning the league and the credibility of the league are completely separate issues anyway - not entirely sure why you’re bringing that up here - other than to look like a sore winner and goading a reaction?

The league needs to incorporate some transparency around the policing of the teams, particularly around salary cap and roster changes - it currently looks ridiculous and a complete free for all.
 

E.D.S.

Well-Known Member
#51
There is an Interesting post on the Hockey Forum. The quote goes something like, the only fans making an issue are those from teams that have under performed. As one Guildford fan posted, he has heard zero rumbling from Guildford fans.

Take from that what you like.

The record will show, Belfast as League and Challenge cup winners. Again., I could be wrong, but that may count as a Double, Treble.

League and Challenge Cup three consecutive years.
I’ve spoken to plenty of a Guildford’s fans at the Spectrum and at IAW who raised the issue of wage cap. They may not be on the hockey forum, I’m not. It doesn’t mean that they don’t think it or suspect anything. like you say the record shows Giants won and will continue to win. Congratulations to you.
 
#52
The fact that no club is publicly complaining is not proof that there are no rules beings broken. If rules were broken, and clubs were unhappy about it, they still have their bottom line to consider. This is a small league, in a constantly precarious position - without the cooperation of every team the entire thing falls apart. When do you ever NOT see a united front on any issue - and how likely do you think that is behind the scenes?

The records will show that Belfast have won again. But the fans will still talk about the unfair challenge Cup competition, and what to the letter of the rules (thanks Finny) IS a breach of IR rules, and what looks like blatant overspending. And if the league say nothing, and this continues, then more and more people will talk. If nothing is wrong, then why not simply prove it? Or even comment on it? Surely silence, in this case, does way more harm than good.

Because the way it looks right now, the message the league is sending is with good recruiting, a clever game plan and a little grit - you can come second to a team that cheats.
 

BostonBart22

Well-Known Member
#53
The fact that no club is publicly complaining is not proof that there are no rules beings broken. If rules were broken, and clubs were unhappy about it, they still have their bottom line to consider. This is a small league, in a constantly precarious position - without the cooperation of every team the entire thing falls apart. When do you ever NOT see a united front on any issue - and how likely do you think that is behind the scenes?

The records will show that Belfast have won again. But the fans will still talk about the unfair challenge Cup competition, and what to the letter of the rules (thanks Finny) IS a breach of IR rules, and what looks like blatant overspending. And if the league say nothing, and this continues, then more and more people will talk. If nothing is wrong, then why not simply prove it? Or even comment on it? Surely silence, in this case, does way more harm than good.

Because the way it looks right now, the message the league is sending is with good recruiting, a clever game plan and a little grit - you can come second to a team that cheats.
brought this up on numerous posts about clarification from the lge about wage caps, but low and behold nowt has come to light which is no surprise as there is no such thing in writing its all bullshit just a gentlemans agreement ...laughable in all honesty..
 

E.D.S.

Well-Known Member
#54
You can’t bring in McLeod et al mid season and still be within a wage cap unless you’ve gotten rid of some big earners. If you can, that’s arguably the greatest bit of recruitment this league has ever seen. What a player. Jealous? Abso-frickin-lutely.
 

moggy#9

Well-Known Member
#55
brought this up on numerous posts about clarification from the lge about wage caps, but low and behold nowt has come to light which is no surprise as there is no such thing in writing its all bullshit just a gentlemans agreement ...laughable in all honesty..
Back in the day we all complained about how the old HBL was basically run for the benefit of Durham. That's why it hurt them so much when the devils upset the apple cart. The eihl use little better in terms of credibility, and needs to do something about the way it is run (on many fronts) if it is going to advance.
 
#56
Actually, genuine question Gisland - do you not want the league to address this?

I'm sure you're still on a high from victory, and as you said yourself, records will show it - but fans will also remember it. And if there's one thing we know, these things only get flanderized over time.

The league only has to come out and say "we're aware of the concerns, and Belfast have done nothing wrong" - that's all. Otherwise, any time you say "we won three years on the bounce" or in all likelihood "we won the grandslam", you can guarantee that someone else will respond "yeah, because you fiddled the numbers". Don't you want that cleared?

Unless you're so convinced that it's a non-issue that you don't care about the naysayers... but if that was the case, you've made a lot of noise about putting the rumours to bed on here.
 

Finny

Well-Known Member
Thread starter #57
Actually, genuine question Gisland - do you not want the league to address this?

I'm sure you're still on a high from victory, and as you said yourself, records will show it - but fans will also remember it. And if there's one thing we know, these things only get flanderized over time.

The league only has to come out and say "we're aware of the concerns, and Belfast have done nothing wrong" - that's all. Otherwise, any time you say "we won three years on the bounce" or in all likelihood "we won the grandslam", you can guarantee that someone else will respond "yeah, because you fiddled the numbers". Don't you want that cleared?

Unless you're so convinced that it's a non-issue that you don't care about the naysayers... but if that was the case, you've made a lot of noise about putting the rumours to bed on here.
And that is exactly what the league did last year. Sheffield signed an extra import which appeared to take them over the import limit, but the league explained why it was allowed.

This year………
 

Gisland

Active Member
#58
Actually, genuine question Gisland - do you not want the league to address this?

I'm sure you're still on a high from victory, and as you said yourself, records will show it - but fans will also remember it. And if there's one thing we know, these things only get flanderized over time.

The league only has to come out and say "we're aware of the concerns, and Belfast have done nothing wrong" - that's all. Otherwise, any time you say "we won three years on the bounce" or in all likelihood "we won the grandslam", you can guarantee that someone else will respond "yeah, because you fiddled the numbers". Don't you want that cleared?

Unless you're so convinced that it's a non-issue that you don't care about the naysayers... but if that was the case, you've made a lot of noise about putting the rumours to bed on here.
I do. And I asked the question about this and other matters within the league to the league, including the Keefe incident at the Sheffield match. Like some on here, i have received no response. That proves nor disproves anything. Just that the league are at times ignorant to its fan base. i also emailed the Giants office. Again no response How many of you have emailed the Devils office, or asked Todd the question at a recent Q&A event.? Or is at as Finny responded, "Nothing to do with Todd why would I mail him"
 

Gisland

Active Member
#59
You might want to check your facts there.
Giants won the league in 2019, 2022, 2023
They are not three consecutive years.
And in 2020 Sheffield won the Challenge Cup.
My bad, you are 100% correct. Records do show Sheffield won,and were presented with the Challenge Cup 2020

So, moving on with that season,Who won the LEAGUE As in, who are recorded as the League Champions and got presented with the Cup. Because this is all I can find..

"Season curtailed due to the COVID-19 pandemic, no titles awarded."

And in fairness, I did amend my slighly later post to "3 straight completed season league titles"

In response to some posts trying to insinuate I am trying to gloat, nothing in any post I have made has been written with this in mind. Nor am I condoning the Leagues action. If anyone here, starts some sort of programe, that will yeald any response, from the league or any club representative, then I will happily put my name to it and pubilcally show it.
 

E.D.S.

Well-Known Member
#60
My bad, you are 100% correct. Records do show Sheffield won,and were presented with the Challenge Cup 2020

So, moving on with that season,Who won the LEAGUE As in, who are recorded as the League Champions and got presented with the Cup. Because this is all I can find..

"Season curtailed due to the COVID-19 pandemic, no titles awarded."

And in fairness, I did amend my slighly later post to "3 straight completed season league titles"

In response to some posts trying to insinuate I am trying to gloat, nothing in any post I have made has been written with this in mind. Nor am I condoning the Leagues action. If anyone here, starts some sort of programe, that will yeald any response, from the league or any club representative, then I will happily put my name to it and pubilcally show it.
I wouldn’t blame you if you did gloat a little. Thoroughly deserved.
 
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